Matrix: Reloaded

really interesting farker discussion on The Matrix: Reloaded

05-22-03 01:18:32 PM BadBatsuMaru
Sorry, but I have to say this one more time... The Architect's speech is mostly irrelevant. He's a full-of-crap salesman. He's sitting there with a pen saying, "Sign here! Listen to me! Kill everybody in Zion! It's what you were meant to do!"

The only thing everybody's actually figured out is that Persephone is the Mother, not The Oracle. But the way The Architect says, "Please!" when Neo suggests The Oracle makes that obvious. It doesn't have to be Persephone, though. That whole kissing thing means they definitely want you to believe that she's a program trying to study humans, but for all we know it could be Trinity (although that's somewhat unlikely as it would screw up the love story and really piss people off).

The Architect is a program. He's 100% computer. He's the MCP a la Tron. Corporate Mofo is trying entirely too hard to draw the plot out of its clever religious metaphors, but they really hit the nail on the head in a few places, particularly:

Understanding why things are the way they are requires an understanding of another holy text: Asimov's Laws of Robotics. The machines, as demonstrated by Smith's need to try to kill Neo even after being "freed," don't have free will. ... The bit about the machines needing human bio-energy to survive, as Morpheus (the dreamer) explained in the first movie, is bullshiat. The machines keep humanity alive but imprisoned, even after taking over the world, because they were created to serve people. In other words, the machines would like to destroy humanity, but they CAN'T. Instead, they need a human to make the choice.

Programs can't kill people. They're not allowed to. They can justify killing someone in The Matrix, because they're not really killing them; they're fooling the mind so that the person is killed by their own mind. But Zion is unplugged. The only way the machines can destoy Zion is by getting a human to do it for them. Therefore, it is The Architect's sole purpose to lie to The One and get him to kill Zion.

I mean, come on! The machines would just kill everybody and build a few nuclear reactors if they could! They don't need people for energy. If that ends up being true at the end of Revolutions, I'm going to go up to Larry and Andy myself and demand all my money back.

Everybody loves the scene where Neo stops the Sentinels in real life. Neo stopped the Sentinels, but he's not in The Matrix, so there have to be many Matrices, one on top of the other! That's what they want you to believe, but it's a little too obvious, isn't it?

There is no Over Matrix, just The Matrix. Smith has new powers over humans because he is linked to Neo. That was explained fairly well, although Smith admits he doesn't understand it himself. This also means that Neo has new powers over machines because he is linked to Smith.

If there was an Over Matrix, the machines wouldn't even have to hassle with Zion, because they would control the Over Matrix. They would only have to make a few Agents appear in Zion. And, if there was an Over Matrix, then how can you explain The Architect noodling around to try and get Neo to give up Zion? Asimov's Laws only control machines in the real world.

Most of the confusion and needless speculation I'm seeing is coming from people assuming The Architect is telling the truth. The Architect wants Neo to think he's a program and his purpose is to destroy Zion, which goes against everything else in the movie. Why believe him? Just because Morpheus is doubting the Prophecy doesn't mean all you suckers have to.

Hell, maybe The Oracle is the Mother. Just because The Architect tried to deny it doesn't mean she's not.

05-22-03 06:46:06 PM Agrippa
More than one Matrix? No, there is only one Matrix. Just so you know, Zion is part of the Matrix. It is part of the control system; those 0.1% that won't accept the Matrix are free from it, though still a part of it.

How else could Agent Smith exist in Zion? How could Neo destroy a sentinal in the real world with his mind? I wonder if his choice will help him wake up in the real real world.

05-23-03 01:32:16 PM Aquigley Synthesis Post!
I watched it again last night...you seriously get a lot more out of the second viewing.

First off, the rave scene is only 5:30 from first drumbeat to final shot of Keanu's ass. To compare, the end credits are 9:30. Crappy scene, but not 20 minutes long.

Second, there isn't any OverMatrix stuff going on. The real world is the real world. Above, someone posted that scenes from Zion and the Nebechudnotgonnaworkhereanymore show up on the monitors behind Neo in the Architect's room. That is not true. All the scenes come from within the Matrix. The reason why Neo can exert some control over the sentinels is the same reason why Smith can control Bane...somehow, some way, when Neo "imprinted" part of his code on Smith, Smith "imprinted" part of his self on Neo. That is the real thing that's messing with everyone's mind here.

If the squiddie-shocking scene didn't happen, no one would have even thought "OverMatrix". The explanation is the cross-mojonation of Smith and Neo.

Finally...I do think the Architect is telling the truth about this being the 6th version of the Matrix. Reason: The Merovingian. Frenchy alludes to the fact that Neo is actually fulfilling his duty to restore order to the Matrix, instead of destroy it like Neo thinks he's doing. "It's the WHY that you do not understand." Also, when they're fightin' and fussin' with the melee weapons, Frenchy says to Neo before leaving, "I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you." However, Frenchy does seem surprised at the ease in which Neo dispatches his minions...THIS Neo is different than the other 5. Frenchy and the Architect could both be telling the same lie...but they're not building the Merovingian to be a toadie. He's his own man, and he's gonna wipe his ass with silk and cook up some blow job cheesecake as long as he wants to.

Conclusion: No OverMatrix, Smith and Neo gave each other a really virulent strain of MatrixHerpes, this really is the 6th Matrix, and this Neo is different than the other five.

Posted by skp at maio 23, 2003 01:20 PM | TrackBack